ozark southpaw
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"Red Dot"Adjustomatic ?!Earlier tonight I was going through some pipes to put on Ebag. Came acroos this Little Red Dot; For some reason I removed the stem and saw that it had threads a lot like a Grabow which got me to thinking. I have a Grabow canadian that has a chewed up stem so I tried this stem in it and it screwed right in! was a little overclocked so I cranked on it and it spun around like an Adjusto! Put the stem back in the Red Dot and it also spins. Is this a grabow made pipe maybe?
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drbridges
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Oz, I have a Red Dot too. I believe Mac sent it to me. And I believe my Red Dot is also ajustomatic with the over-turn feature.
It is hard for me to believe the Lavietes would allow another pipe maker to use their ajustomatic feature, so I am inclined to believe the Red Dot was produced by HLT, either in NY or Sparta.
I have no idea when the might have made Red Dot pipes, or who they made them for.
Van Roy pipes were also ajusto, at least some of them were. But I've assumed HLT made them for Van Roy. I have an ad from 1945 of the HLT Royalton Crown and the Van Roy.
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ozark southpaw
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Didn't Van Roy become a part of HLT/Grabow at some point? I seem to remember seeing some pipes on Ebay called Dr. Grabow Van Roy. I have one Van Roy,isn't stamped Grabow though. It is stamped Adjustomatic.
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drbridges
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Yes, Oz, I believe that is accurate. Van Roy Pipe Co. made sold ajusto Van Roy pipes. I suspect HLT-NY made them. Later HLT-Sparta made some Dr. Grabow Van Roy pipes. Some of those may have been ajustomatics, but most were mortise/tenon push stem types. None were filtered that I've seen.
Addtion This Red Dot and Van Roy discussion brings up something curious I've seen in the popular pipes I collect, off brand pipes. Pipe companies sometimes make and sell pipes they don't advertise.
M. Linkman & Co. did this with Linkman's Olde London and Dr. Grabow Special. These vintage pipes are in circulation, but I've yet to find an advertisement for them.
The Dr. Grabow Standard, Van Roy, Willard, Ringmaster, Sunset Grain seem to fall into a similar category. I don't know if they were made for special order customers, or when. The Red Dot may be another of these.
Perhaps ted can explain some of this unpublicized pipe production based on his experiences. The only explanation I have for it is the pipe company left the responsibility for promoting for these special pipes to someone else. Like a retailer.
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drbridges
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| Quote: | | Perhaps ted can explain some of this unpublicized pipe production based on his experiences. The only explanation I have for it is the pipe company left the responsibility for promoting for these special pipes to someone else. Like a retailer. |
It is easy to imagine this scenario. HLT acquired another pipe company, let's imagine Van Roy. HLT may not have planned to continue making Van Roy pipes, but one of their regional salesmen came in with an order. He said my area includes a large retail market that has invested a lot in Van Roy displays and advertisements. They are reluctant to change immediately to Dr. Grabow. I believe I can sell 12 gross units of Van Roy pipes if you can provide them.
HLT said this isn't a problem. We can stamp 12 gross units as Van Roy. We already own that trademark, and we have the stamps. Maybe the stamping ladies had already stamped them as Dr. Grabow. This isn't a problem, we can just stamp them Van Roy underneath Dr. Grabow, but we're not going to spend money to promote the Dr. Grabow Van Roy pipes. Instead we're going to promote our national DG pipe lines and try to persuade your area's large retail market to eventually change their displays over to our pipe lines.
So a limited run of DG Van Roy pipes came onto the market.
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ozark southpaw
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Seems plausible to me! I am kinda intrigued by these pipes that look like Grabows but ain't! I have a couple of them,would like to pick up some more someday.
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drbridges
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Oz, I found my ajusto Red Dot in my current pipe rotation. It definitely ain't no HLT/Sparta DG shape. We gotta assume someone else made the Red Dot.
Same with my early ajusto Van Roys (non-DG). They are not comparable to HLT/Sparta DG shapes.
I cannot rule out HLT/NY as the manufacturer. Or maybe ted can recall them sometimes making unique shapes for unique customers.
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Mike Leverette
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According to "Who Made That Pipe" by Herb Wilczak and Tom Colwell, the Red Dot pipes were made by Whitehall, or some company in England. Since it has the "imported briar" stamp, I would say Whitehall. Now all we need is; who was Whitehall!
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drbridges
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Odd you should mention Whitehall, Mike. I almost mentioned that pipe company in an earlier post in this thread. I don't know much about them, except they tended to sell off display boards in groceries and convience stores. Whitehall pipes may have competed for DG's market.
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ted
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Guys....Give me a while to ponder. Whitehall was a customer of Mastercraft.....Probably imported pipes themselves.
They supplied coupon pipes for Sir Walter Raleigh (through Mastercraft), but I cannot remember much about them. Gimme some time and a lawnmower...ted
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drbridges
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| Quote: | | Gimme some time and a lawnmower...ted |
Wrong time of year for that, ted. We may have to wait until Spring. 
Whitehall wasn't included in the lists Mike & I posted of pipe makers in the general NY area. There still is a Whitehall pipe tobacco. Whitehall googling is how I found that on-line dealer with the SWR pipes and Edgeworth RR.
Whitehall Black Tie, I believe it was. Their ad claims the ladies love it!
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ozark southpaw
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Hey Ted,I've got my mower gassed up! Grass don't need mowed but the leaves are butt deep to a tall giraffe!! I'll furnish the coffee too!
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ted
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Just the thought of mowing gets my brain cells to working.
Here's a bit more about Whitehall. They were a division of Helme (Tobacco or Products) and I believe were located in Wheeling WV. At some point Helme was bought by Culbro Corp., and later sold to American Maize.
Mastercraft's business with them stopped in the late 70's, and everything we sold them was shipped directly to them without going through our factory.
Whitehall had display cards that were sold as DRB mentioned, but they also had an agreement with Brown and Williamson for coupon and promotion pipes for SWR. I specifically remember a "sterling" pipe which was filigreed with sterling silver.
I'm also almost positive that the carved head of SWR himself was made in Israel and sold to Whitehall for B&W....I'm sure there were other things we sold them, but for now can't remember any....ted
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drbridges
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ted, once the snow from this week clears you may begin mowing again. While you're out there, see if you can figure out how Whitehall made RED DOT pipes using the Ajustomatic joint. I wouldn't expect HL&T just gave that feature away.
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ted
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| drbridges wrote: | | ted, once the snow from this week clears you may begin mowing again. While you're out there, see if you can figure out how Whitehall made RED DOT pipes using the Ajustomatic joint. I wouldn't expect HL&T just gave that feature away. |
Well David, I've mowed 3 times and can only scratch the surface about the Red Dot. As I said, Mastercraft dealt with Whitehall until the mid 70's and we (Mastercraft in this case) imported and sold the Red Dot to them. I certain Carlo Rossi didn't make them. That pretty well leaves GIGI Pipe, or M. Gasparini, or Santambrogio. Best guess is Gasparini.
How he was able to make an adjustomatic, and use a #19 part (male) that looks EXACTLY like a Grabow is a mystery. Through 91' Grabow never made any Red Dot, nor any unstsamped pipes that could have become Red Dot.
Perhaps the Grabow patent was not enforced in Italy, or perhaps, by this time, no-one cared.......or perhaps.....
We used to send So La Res lots of aluminum for our Duke and Lark and other "projects" that Otto was involved in. Perhaps Otto made them and allowed them to get back into this country through another supplier.
By the way, I found Uli's phone number in Livorno and will call him when I get enough questions for him. Might even get him to join the Forum. I know he is computer saavy......ted
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drbridges
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I guess I thought the DG pipes Otto made were tampon DUKE and push stem LARK. Didn't know he might have made some Ajustomatics.
You've mowed 3X already!? Your place must resemble a golf putting green by now. 
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ted
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| drbridges wrote: | I guess I thought the DG pipes Otto made were tampon DUKE and push stem LARK. Didn't know he might have made some Ajustomatics.
You've mowed 3X already!? Your place must resemble a golf putting green by now. |
David, I don't believe that Otto "oficially" made any adjustomatic pipes, but I remember sending him a box of #19 parts. Otto had several "businesses" that were all pipe related. He could have used the parts anywhere.
My house and yard were finished in 2000 and are on the old dairy barn lots. 40 years of cow manure and a little rain makes for ideal growing conditions...ted
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