| Archive for Dr. Grabow Pipes "America's One and Only" |
| Titus13 |
Can anyone give me a date on this pipe?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....RK:MEWNX:IT&item=110369072227 |
||
| drbridges |
Date?Date? The date the auction ended was March 28, 2009.
Seriously, HL&T dba Dr. Grabow Pre-Smoked Pipes, Corp. filed WESTBROOK as a trademark on November 8, 1965. The trademark WESTBROOK was officially registered on October 18, 1966. In their filing, HL&T claim WESTBROOK was first used as a trademark in 1957. So we may conclude the WESTBROOK pipe began about 1957. The WESTBOOK was sold as a coupon pipe through RJ Reynolds. According to ted here, and other Sparta employees I have interviewed, the RJR coupons ceased about 1974, but DG continued to honor them another 10 years until about 1985. The fine line rustication on this pipe is seen commonly on the WESTBROOK pipes. I don't believe DG originally used this rustication on the WESTBROOK. The early ones tended to be smooth. The wire carving was one of the more dangerous jobs in the factory. Ted can provide more details. My guess is DG didn't introduce the fine line rustication until the later 1960s. Maybe later than that. So to date your pipe, I would guess 1965 to 1985. Maybe someone here can guess closer. |
||
| ted |
Dr. B., Titus, I'll agree, but odds are that it's 1964-5 till 1973-4. That cuts it down a little. Pin me down and I'll say about 1966-67 because this shape changed slightly over the years and it has an Italian stem. This one looks mostly like the older ones.....ted | ||
| drbridges |
I was unaware the fine line wire rustication began that early, ted. Do you recall when Sparta started it?
Could you explain the #81 shape evolution? How did it change? |
||
| ted |
David, When I started in 1966 the factory was "evolving" the wire brush carving. I believe the "offer"in the tobacco dates slightly earlier. I do believe the carving was only done on coupon pipes in the early times. Only shifted to Viscount and Starfire in the later 60's.
No, I can't explane the evolution of the #81, or any other shapes. Just know they changed slightly over the years. Mold "rot" I guess, but I can see the differences, even in pictures. Guess you had to be there.........Sorry.....ted |
||
| ted |
David, I don't think that was the best explination that could be given. Look at the film where "Gomer" is running the frazer. The metal mold slides over a metal wheel, and the knives cut the shape of the mold. The mold "wears", no matter how much grease we put on it.
In shapes that were done on the frazer, I recognize the subtle changes. Cannot do it on apples, billiards, pears, dublins......The frazer does it differently, and the #81 was made on the frazer. There were always very few #81's in inventory. They were almost "made to order", so I can recognize a stummel made in 1966 compared to a stummel made in 1990. Yep, you had to be there....ted.... |
||
| drbridges |
Thanks for the explanation, ted. Yep, I would have had to be there.
Is the #83 bulldog also made on the frazer? I notice DG is still making #83's, but the #81 is absent. I guess I am wondering if DG has limited their use of the frazer? |
||
| ted |
DRB....That's perceptive.....No, the 80, 82, and 83 were NOT done on the frazer. Bents however are......Maybe the frazers are only set up to do bents. One each for 67, 37L, and 47.......That'll eliminate the Continentals and a few other shapes...
Could be.....ted..... |
||
| Titus13 |
thanks guysThanks guys for your reply |
||
| LokoMac8 |
One thing I can't let slide by here -- I just gotta know! How can you tell that it is an Italian stem? For some time I have tried to figure some way that the stampings on the pipe could be tied in to the dating of the pipe. This one has the name over a bolder looking "Dr. Grabow." I have thought this might have been used on the earlier of the HL&T Grabows, but I find myself actually "all over the chart" with it. For sure, I have a five pipe set of VISCOUNTs from 1972 (according to the fellow that said he got them new then) and the pipes have a mixture of thin block "Dr. GRABOW" stamps and the Cooper Black-esk "Dr. Grabow." I've never been able to pin down if HL&T started with that stamp, but I figured it was used fairly early on as it appears on BELVEDEREs and they were discontinued about the time the SCULPTURAs were offered around 1967-69 (you may have told me the exact date, TED, but I don't have it handy). 
|
||
| ted |
Mac.....How can I tell it's an Italian stem?
The oxidation of the bit. It can't be ABS, because they won't do that. It can't be German, because they won't do that. The only other suppliers for the 2065 bit were Santero and Guidici in Italy and their vulcanite was "blessed" with sulphur. Mac, Grabow pipes to me are like trains to you. Sometimes we just know..regards |
||
| drbridges |
You remember, Mac. Ernesto Santero and Carlo Guidici were in Varese, Italy.
I guess the DG #81 was the only shape that used the 2065 bit, ted? Please remind me when you have time, which DG stems were the last to switch to ABS plastic. And was DG eventually able to switch all of their stem shapes to ABS? |
||
| ted |
Yes, the 81 was the only shape to use the 2065 bit. Square shank Bulldogs I think. 80, 82, 83......ted |
||
| drbridges |
Don't forget the 86 square shank bulldog.
What about the TR triangle shank series? Did those present problems switching to ABS? Jack M. told me some bits were Greek. ted, do you remember any bits coming from Greece? Early on, DG advertised their WESTBROOK bits were German vulcanite. I think Mac & I have copies of that pamphlet. |
||
| ted |
Yes, forgot the 86.....Triangle pipes used regular bits that were sanded into the TR shape.....I don't recall any suppliers for bits in Greece..ted |
||
| LokoMac8 |
You, Sir, are amazing! I knew that of ABS, but I sure didn't know that difference between Italian and German vulcanite or the reason behind the oxidation of those bits. Apparently, I have LOTS of Italian bits and have expended all sorts of time and energy getting that stuff off of the bits! Thanks TED -- you always manage to make my day with another nugget of information for my knowledge base. Well, for my notes, anyway. I tend to forget most things committed to memory as a result of often being "sworn to secrecy", etc., whereupon I made a point to instantly delete all new information from my mind as soon as I received it so that I would not reveal any secrets, even if tortured. My instant "dumb looks" upon being queried have been convincing enough in interrogations that the inquisitors have, fortunately, never resorted to torture. One big advantage is, WAKING UP IN A NEW WORLD EVERYDAY KEEPS LIFE EXCITING AND INTERESTING, though a bit perplexing to those, like my wife, who often are heard exclaiming, "Don't you remember I told you . . . ?" --RJ-- |
||
| LokoMac8 |
Yes, the early ones were anyway. Of course, the pamphlets were reprinted through the years with VERY LITTLE EDITING TO BRING THEM UP TO DATE. And, unfortunately, none were dated, even in code, so there were scant few clues to go by. The only dating I have been able to do is by vague date references in the pamphlets ("twenty years ago . . .") and by obtaining postmarked shipping boxes with the pipe AND PAMPHLET inlcuded. One day perhaps we could find something in the files of the printers, or in purchasing order documents between Sparta and the printing company, etc. --RJ-- 
|
||