New (to me) Red Eldorado

steverino · New (to me) Red Eldorado

Just picked up this jewel on ebay and was really glad to get it. It is the first 84L I've seen in the red finish. Was pretty clean, too.

ozark southpaw

Purty!! Doesn't appear to have seen much use!

Gig

Lovely looking pipe, congrats on acquiring it Smile

drbridges

I believe you're going to appreciate that ELDORADO, Steve.

steverino

Thanks fellas, I'm looking forward to trying it out as soon as my cold goes away. The seller said in his description that this pipe was from his college days in the 60s, and from the looks of it, he hasn't smoked it since then. It only took about 6 bristle pipe cleaners to get the shank clean, and I've bought a lot of estate pipes that the seller said had been cleaned that took more than that. If it smokes as well as my sandblasted 84L, it will be a great pipe indeed.

drbridges

My notes from ted's recollections say the ruby red ELDORADO finish dates from the 80's. I am curious to see if ted agrees with the seller that this one comes from the 60's.

Beautiful pipe regardless. I had it on my eBay watch list, but never bid on it. Glad you got it, Steve.

steverino

Thanks, DRB. Yeah, now that you mention it, it seems like to me I've read that too. I imagine it's possible that the seller confused it with another pipe, perhaps. I look forward to hearing from Ted on it.

tragicalien2002

Nice looking pipe!!!

ted

Steve, Regardless of when the pipe was made, I'm still the most envious on this board. This 84L, along with the 83, were the finest pipes Grabow ever made. The 84L was the single most expensive pipe to manufacture.

It used MF 4-5 wood and very few blocks were tall enough and long enough for this shape....1 in 10,000. Then add the quality necessary for the Eldorado....one in a million.....easily....

It had a 1250 oval bit. 12mm wide and 50 mm long. I cannot remember when the last of the German versions were used up, but it might be.

It has a 2 step finish. It was stained black, buffed within an inch of it's life, and then sprayed with a red tint. Ray Wagoner, our Production Manager(from the mid 40's) and Ronnie Sikes (our coatings supplier) developed the technique using ideas from the furniture industry.

I believe I know about when it was made, but age is all in the perception. If it was made day-before-yesterday it's still a piece of art, and you have done well, my friend....Tom....

steverino

Thanks Ted, that's good info - I know I value my blast-finish Eldorado quite highly; in fact, if I had to get rid of my pipe collection, which contains Petersons, Stanwells and Kaywoodies as well as Grabows, it is one pipe that I would hang on to at all costs - I really enjoy smoking it that much. Hope the red one turns out to smoke that well, this darn cold is keeping me from finding out!

ted

Steve, Hang on. Don't get the flu. Chickens and hogs dying all around the world.

'ppears to me to be a way to keep our mind off the REAL problems.....anyway

If you get really sick.....please will me a couple of pipes......84L, 84L......My Best..Get Better....ted

TheDuke

steverino

Thanks for the good wishes Ted, I hope it will be gone soon - can't wait to try the pipe!

Duke, I don't know - might have to think long and hard about that one - nope, I was wrong, it only took at second!

steverino

Well, here's a quick report on the new pipe.

In terms of physical interaction with the pipe, all I can say is "wow". The bit on this particular pipe is quite thin - significantly thinner than my blast finish 84L - making it really easy to hold with the teeth. I am really quite surprised and pleased with this. I decided to weigh both pipes and the blast 84L weighs 49 grams while the red 84L weighs 40 grams. Number 1, I'm surprised there's this much difference (could it be the band on the blast finish pipe?) and number 2, I wouldn't have thought this would be enough difference to feel, but it sure is.

I'm not quite 100% from my cold yet so still can't give an accurate smoking report, but I have tried it and I think it's going to be good.

ted

Steve, I'm pleased for you. Guess I was hopefull that you wouldn't like it, and I could pick it up on my way home. I know! I know! Had my chances years ago.

two things.....If the "bite" is perceptivly thinner, then it may well be a German bit. If so, you really have a "gem".
As far as the weight....the aluminum should...only should...weigh less than a comparable length of briar. The sandblasted pipes, by selection, usually had a much courser, harder grain,,,,,usually.....which equated into a heavier pipe.

Enjoy it. Glad the cold is getting better...ted

steverino

Ted, thanks for that info, that's something I'd never thought about. I figured that, for the blast finish, they probably selected blocks that didn't have as nice a grain pattern as others, but I hadn't thought about that equating to a denser or harder block - very interesting. Sure wish I could have worked in a pipe factory for a year or two. Wonder if, after i retire, they'd let me sweep the floors?

ted

Steve, They wouldn't let me. Although I retired under much different circumstances.

When the stummel for a sandblast pipe "fooled" the selector, then we got very, VERY, light pipes. Fooling these ladies was as tough as convincing Mae Owens (she died a few days ago) that we WERE NOT IN NEW YORK......Congratulations on the 84L....ted

TheDuke

Glad it's turning out to be a real winner!

steverino

I've got a question about this pipe. This is something I've never run into.

I was swabbing out some other pipes with grain alcohol last night and decided to go ahead and do the red Eldorado as it was sitting there doing nothing at the time.

Had no problem until I got to the stem. When I passed the alcohol-wetted pipe cleaner through the stem, it came out red! It looked as though there was some of the red stain inside the stem. Keep in mind that I had already cleaned the pipe with isopropyl alcohol before I smoked it, and when I cleaned the stem, I remember seeing a little bit of color, but it seemed to go away as I cleaned. Apparently, the grain alcohol is a bit better solvent than the isopropyl. At any rate, I got all the color out of the stem (took several pipe cleaners) but am left wondering why it was there in the first place.

Has anyone run into this before? Why would stain be in the stem? Or maybe it was not stain and the previous owner had red saliva. Or smoked a really strong cherry blend.

drbridges

Yes, I've encountered it frequently.

I don't know how the color gets in there, but it does.

Grain alcohol (which is ethyl alcohol) is a primary alcohol vs Isopropyl is a secondary alcohol. Don't know if their ability to dissolve pipe residue varies that much. Suspect the difference you see may be due to concentration differences.

Isopropyl is often bottled at 60-70%. Grain alcohol is bottled at 95%. You can find isopropyl at 91% concentration, but you often have to look for it.

ozark southpaw

Question on the #84's. What make Steve Eldorado an 84-L ? How do 84L's differ from an 84. I don't have a chart that shows an 84L. I have a Starfire Canadian with the alum. shank ext. Is it an 84? My charts don;t show Canadian with alum ext. either.

ted

Steve, Dr.B, OS....When I read(red) (my Foster Brooks impersonation) your posts, I had to go outside, smoke my pipe, and try to remember the manufacturing steps.

Steve, I don't have a clue why the stem "bleeds" red on the red Eldorado.

The red Eldorado was stained black with it's stem attatched. It was buffed with it's stem attatched, but when it was sprayed red the stem had been removed and not re-inserted until it was dry and a couple of other operations had been done.

Dr. B..In most other cases, pipes were stained the final color with the stem attatched. Most stain, since it was methanol based, would "seep" into the bit. This "residual" stain would often look red or reddish-brown...Doesn't explane Steves though.

OS... I once answered the question about the 84/84L with another "I don't know", but now I remember. The 84 shape has an oval shank. We only had 2 oval bits. If we used a 1250 (12mm wide and 50mm long) it was an 84L. If we used the 1373 bit (13mm X 73mm) it was just 84.

The 1373 bit, by the way, was used on the 65 YACHT shape and probably was the most comfortable bit we ever had...even in ABS.

The aluminum extension was only on Eldorado, Commodore, Viscount, Starfire, Golden Duke, and a shorter extension on Regal, and Silver Duke.
DISCLAIMER.....only applies through 1991...ted

ozark southpaw

Thanks Ted! That means my Starfire is an 84L. Now I gotta get an 84!!

ted

OS....THEY ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN....In most cases if we used the 1373 bit we had to cut off a little wood(15 to 20mm's) to make it look balanced. We hated to do that and so most are 84L.

Good luck. Westbrook or Berwyck may be the best place to look. I think it is safe to say that no 84-1373 were made after 1964 other than these RJR coupon pipes....ted

ozark southpaw

Ted,your mention of Westbrooks rang a bell! Dug around in the shop and a found a Westbrook canadian but it is an oval shank also! Has the longer bit and no shank extension. Wish I could find another stem for it. The one on it has a hole in it!

ted

OS...That is probably the 84. Nice find.....ted

drbridges

ozark southpaw

Drb,yes it does have a thinner,flatter bit. Made a lot different than the bit on the Starfire. Didn't notice that before!

drbridges

Ted, that is great info. Thank you for sharing. Don't know how stain gets inside the DG shanks. I only know it does. It usually is gone after a dozen bowls.

steverino

Thanks for all that "stained" info. As much stain as was still in my stem, the pipe must really have been smoked very little.

Ted, I went and checked my stem and it measures 14mm wide at the shank and 47mm long, not counting the threads - it's 56mm with the threads. Do you suppose this is a different stem than the ones you mentioned or maybe I'm not measuring it just right.

DRB, I always use 91% isopropyl and you're right, there doesn't seem to be an order of magnitude difference between it and grain alcohol, but I do notice some difference - enough to make me wish grain alcohol was as cheap as isopropyl.

ted

Steve, since the bit and pipe were oval and sanded flush with the shank several times, it is really difficult to measure the finished bit. 1250(12mm X 50 mm )was the starting size and could have varied by a couple of mm's. The test is the length. There is a difference betweem 50mm's and 73 mm's, and these were the only oval bits we used.
1250 and 1373...12x50 and 13x73.

Now would one of you alcoholics explane to me the difference between methanol and isopropyl alcohol.

I understand grain alcohol...Used to drink something purple made in a bathtub called PJ. It's a Carolina thing.....ted

steverino

Okay Ted, that makes sense then - since my bit is ~48mm, it would make sense that it started out as a 50. Wouldn't have had to touch it much to take a couple of mm off during shaping and finishing.

Boy - I hadn't thought about PJ in a very loooong time.

TheDuke

LokoMac8

ted

Mac, Do me a favor.....Look at the shape chart from RJR and see if both 84 and 84L are listed. They were at one time....If they are, see if you can spot a difference....thanks...ted

drbridges

LokoMac8

steverino

I checked my charts and my RJR chart shows the 84 but not the 84L. It does show a 37 and 37L - this is the only one that has an "L" alternate.

My "America Is Sold on Dr. Grabow" brochure shows no "L" versions at all.