steverino
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Old Eldorado?Well how about this, sports fans? I have come across an Eldorado with a push tenon, but still having a cleaner. Would this be a really old one or a really new one? Here's da pix:
Wow. If I collected Eldorados based on all the things that can be different about them, I believe they'd run me out of the house!
By the way - the stem on this pipe, other than the tenon area, looks like the stem off a Golden Duke or something, judging by overall shape and the appearance of the "button hole" - shorter and thicker than the normal type.
A question for Ted - did DG make all models in all shapes? In other words, looking at the shape chart, is it safe to assume that there would have been an Eldorado, for example, made in every possible shape and in every possible finish? To further clarify (or confuse), would it be possible to have Eldorados in say shape 65 that are red finish, blast finish and light finish? I'm sure you see where I'm going - a whole set of every shape in every finish. Ambitious, to be sure, and I may not live to see it, but, Lord willing, I'll keep picking one up here and there and see what happens.
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ozark southpaw
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Nice looking pipe Steve! Stem registration appears perfect so I would think it is original. Shape of the button makes me think stem is ABS??
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steverino
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OS, it definitely feels like ABS, and based on turning it around in the shank a bit, it does appear to have been matched to this pipe. I guess if it is ABS, that would mean that it is a newer pipe, right?
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ozark southpaw
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| steverino wrote: | | OS, it definitely feels like ABS, and based on turning it around in the shank a bit, it does appear to have been matched to this pipe. I guess if it is ABS, that would mean that it is a newer pipe, right? |
That would be my guess Steve.Can you tell if the spade is inlaid or not? I believe some of the early ABS stems used an inlaid spade. Regardless,I'd trade my Lark for it!! Sorry but I threw the 79 out!
Ted can tell us more about this one I'm sure!
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ted
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Lets just say that right now, I'm "BUFFALOED".
It's a grand pipe, but the arrows seem to be pointing in ten different directions.
I'll think some about it....ted
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drbridges
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I believe the vps ELDORADO came out under Lane in the 90s when DG discontinued the ajusto, but still had outstanding orders to fill.
Lane made similar pipes for SWR and CB.
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ted
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Steve, I'll try and answer the "shape" question, but only in the context of 1964 till 1991. Things changed before and after.
Eldorado, all finishes, Commodore, Viscount, Color Viscount, Starfire, Regal and Westbrook were made in the entire shape assortment. So in any of these lines you could find every shape Grabow ever made. (except for the bantam shapes..these were very small and reserved for Lark and Duke)
Golden Duke, Color Duke, Silver, and Berwyck had most shapes. Some shapes just wouldn't lend themselves to the drilling for the filter, or, in some cases, we just didn't have a bit for the filter version.
Other names..Savoy, Royal, Grand, etc. had fewer and fewer of the shapes as the price decreased. An 83 or 84 in a Riviera or Crown Duke would be really rare.
A few coupon pipes, Westbrook etc. were generally only made for coupons. Panels and Sportsmans series, for example. Generally, not always!!!
Thoroughly confused? We'll talk some more....ted
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ozark southpaw
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Steve,I checked my pipes and I have a Golden Duke with an ABS stem that does have an inlaid spade but it has the threaded non-ajusto type stem.
I seem to remember reading somewhere on the forum that 1986 was when they started using ABS.
That sound right Ted?
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ted
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OS....Where'd you throw the 79? Just want to be certain that when I get back through MO I won't step in it.....ted
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ozark southpaw
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Don't worry Ted! I tossed it onto a burning pile of brush and made sure I was standing upwind!!
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LokoMac8
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Re: Old Eldorado? | steverino wrote: | | Well how about this, sports fans? I have come across an Eldorado with a push tenon, but still having a cleaner. Would this be a really old one or a really new one? |
These pipes -- or ones like these -- seem to have a strange mixture of old and new. I get a sneaky suspicion that they were produced -- or more accurately perhaps -- finished out post-1991. As the stamping, I believe, was one of the LAST things to be done, it puzzles me when I see shape number stamps, or what I thought were older versions of Dr. Grabow name stamping, combined with what appears to be newer construction. It's almost as if they dug into a parts or trash bin years later and completed the pipe. Doesn't make them bad pipes in anyway -- as a matter of fact, for the period, they are probably much better than any "new" production. As a "shape number stamp" collector, I think you have a real gem, there.
The 1992 price list I have, which at that time shows the ELDORADO as a push-stem, non-filtered pipe, does not show the availability of the shapes for the different models like the c1980 price pist does, BUT the pamphlet that I think goes with it (undated, but reflecting the same info) shows the ELDORADO at that time available as such:
"ELDORADO -- No finer pipe at any price. 49s, 49, 83, 60, 61, 80, 82, 31, 70, 44, 65, 19, 37L, 47, 50, 36, 84, 36s, 36y, 69, 69s, 10, 11, 81, 45, 12. Available in smooth and rustic, banded and flush." I wondered why the shapes weren't listed in numerical order, but I think, even though they started in the middle of the provided chart, they just went down the list of shapes as they were on the chart.
NOW, as every "further" inspection and investigation of things seems to do, there is one bit of mystery even here -- the list of shapes with the pipe includes "37L", yet THAT SHAPE IS NOT ON THE CHART PROVIDED -- just the "37". There are more contradictions as well. NO pipe is shown as available in a plain "37" shape, only a "37L". One might conclude that the chart should show "37L" rather than "37". The chart shows "37" as "Medium Billiard, Full Bent" and "47" as "Large Billiard, Full Bent". OK, I can deal with that. EXCEPT, in the same brochure a SAVOY is pictured with this to say: "SAVOY -- All bent selection of filter pipes. Large bowl - 37L, Medium bowl - 67, Small bowl - 57. Available in smooth or rustic." Needless to say, the "57" and "67" shapes aren't in the given shape chart. NO WONDER WE ALL GET CONFUSED!!!
It also mentions for the ELDORADO, "Permanent metal condensor replaces standard paper filter." It shows what I call the "pawn" or "ball" type consensor, though -- the one with the ball on the end -- rather than what you have.
By the way, Steve, in 1992 your ELDORADO sold for $17.95 -- same price as the ROYALTON and HILLCREST that year. They were the most expensive pipes listed. --RJ--
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ted
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Steve/Mac, You've mentioned one thing that confused me about the Eldorado and that was the shape number on a pipe that seemed so new.
Did, perhap, Lane(or Grabow) resurrect the Eldorado and go back to stamping shape numbers on them for a short while? Resurrect it with some changes to make it less expensive to make? I've seen another of these somewhere on the Forum and believe it also had the shape number.
I firmely believe that Lanes (and maybe post 1991 Grabow) pipe production was totally an effort to use up bowls, bits, and aluminum, that were in inventory (probably at no value from UST) and to streamline the production process. Lane would have fewer stummels, fewer bits, and less aluminum to try and use. Without all these permutations, manufacturing would be quite simple.
I believe that this reduction accounts for the shapes available in this "new" Eldorado. These shapes, with a few exceptions, would have been the shapes with the highest inventory of good quality stummels. The bit was changed to ABS, and the cleaner to the cheapest one.
There are some shapes that I've not really mentioned. I did mis-speak somewhere on the Forum though. The bantam shapes for Lark and Duke were the 50 series..52, apple..53, dublin..54, pear...56 bulldog ...55, billiard....57, bent. These were ONLY used for Lark and Duke prior to 1991. Westbrook may have had them, but nothing else.
We also had a slim series. These were the smallest of the regular Grabow shapes and are shown on the Westbrook shape chart and I think on the regular shape chart. 16,pot..72, apple..73, dublin..74, pear..75, billiard. There were other shapes, but you get my "drift". In the slims we didn't really have a comparable sized bent, so the 67 was used and sold as both the slim bent and the small medium bent.
Somebody bring a shape chart, even a Westbrook, to Sparta and we'll talk some more...ted
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steverino
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I am always humbled by the wealth of history an information that shows up from you guys. Thanks for taking the effort to produce it. I will definitely plan to bring what little literature I've got, though I imagine everyone else has them as well.
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LokoMac8
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| steverino wrote: | | I am always humbled by the wealth of history an information that shows up from you guys. Thanks for taking the effort to produce it. I will definitely plan to bring what little literature I've got, though I imagine everyone else has them as well. |
Being as how I am flying, and not very trusting of airline baggage systems, I don't know just how much or what I want to risk bringing with me. I have less than an hour connection, so there's a good chance anything but my carry-on (which my past experience tells me to put my valuables and shaving kit and at least one change of clothes in) won't make it.
Charts are as scarce as hen's teeth. Bring yours, Steve! I have several different ones that I still need to scan -- maybe I can get them to ya'll that way. --RJ--
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