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TheDuke

Shape Chart ?

I'm wanting to better identify and log my pipes. Is there a source of the shape chart's ya'll refer to? Or am I stuck waiting for one show's up on Ebay?(I hope not-gone cold turkey for awhile!)
THX EM
drbridges

Are you wanting Chicago DG shapes, or Sparta DG shapes? I can email a pdf version of a 1949 & 1981 DG shape chart to you, TheDuke. PM me with your email.
TheDuke

PM sent.
drbridges

DG shape charts sent.
TheDuke

Thank's DrB! Exactlly what I was looking for! Unfortunatly just found out the printer's out of ink.ARGH!LOL!
BWThomas

DrB, Any chance of getting a PDF copy of your shape charts?  -BW
drbridges

Privately send me your email. Spammers & mass marketers may get it if you post it here. It is a large file 2.7MB for the Sparta DG pipe shapes. 1.1MB for the Chicago DG pipe shapes.
BWThomas

Thanks drb, PM sent

BW
BWThomas

shape chart



click on the thumbnails for larger images, they're big, so may take a minute to load

drbridges was kind enough to pass along a few PDFs of DrG shape charts. I like to hang this kind of stuff on my home office walls, so I decided to take a little time to clean them up and add a touch of color. I also increased the size of the text so I don't have to put on my glasses or squint to read them.

This is just the first sheet of the 1981 Sparta shapes. I'm going to complete all four panels, formated for 18"x36". When printed, the pipes will be full size. I am also going to format some pages 8-1/2"x11" with 4 to 5 pipes on each sheet to put in a binder, kind of a desktop reference.
I also have the '37 Linkman shapes to do too.



Above is a sample page. Probably going to take me a couple more weeks of spare time to do all that I want to do with this. I have a couple of different thoughts as to how to format it. 1) is to just do it as it is on the charts drb sent me. 2) is to order the pipes by shape number to make it easier to locate in the book form. 3) additional information.

This is where I need everyone's help. What other information, if any, would you like to see posted on a shape chart or in a reference booklet?

I ask this, 'cause I plan to make this available to all forum members who may want a copy. I'll send out PDFs. And if you want a printed copy of the wall charts, I've got a wide format printer here at the house (24x36).

I did a search on the forum here, and came across a post by Steve showing off some nifty brochures and shape charts. Steve, if I get by to see you (and I plan to) I'll have my laptop and scanner with me, so if you don't mind, while we are smokin' a bowl or six, I'd like to get a copy of that stuff.

Not looking to sell, this is a hobby, but if you feel obliged, you can buy me a ham biscuit in Sparta the next time everyone meets.

So...let me know what you think about what you would want on a wall chart, or in a reference binder.

BW
BWThomas








edit: image text correction -bw

Here are the single pages with the 'BIG PRINT'
Terry292

Glad to see you're really getting into this, BW.  The more, the merrier.
Terry
steverino

Excellent work there, BW, that is sort of what I had been thinking about doing but have never gotten around to messing with it.  Glad you did it.  Put me down for a copy of the large format printout when you get it all finished - will be glad to reimburse you for the "cost" if you'll tell me what the "cost" is.  I think a mailing tube and postage will be a little bit, too.
BWThomas

I just might be able to hand deliver it for you.
drbridges

Quote:
What other information, if any, would you like to see posted on a shape chart or in a reference booklet?


I hate to bring this up because I feel Mac should be doing this  Laughing , but a brief summary of the DG lines, when they were produced, whether they were ajusto, push stem metal cleaner, or filter would be nice to include with in a desk reference.

If we had a history chapter, we might have the DG book we've talked about.
LokoMac8

Re: shape chart

BWThomas wrote:
I like to hang this kind of stuff on my home office walls, so I decided to take a little time to clean them up and add a touch of color. I also increased the size of the text so I don't have to put on my glasses or squint to read them.


WOW, BW, you're blowing my mind!  I've been tinkering away with my "Dr. Grabow Master Shape Chart" project for what, DRB, three or four years?  Along comes BW and does more in a little while than I have done in a whole lot of while!  Very nice work, indeed!

BWThomas wrote:
This is where I need everyone's help. What other information, if any, would you like to see posted on a shape chart or in a reference booklet?


You can get pretty bogged down in information and a lot of the information is still coming in so to speak.  I'll let others voice their preferences first, except to say, for a certain era, we could probably add what lines that were available in what shapes.  I have several different era shape charts that could help with that.

BWThomas wrote:
So...let me know what you think about what you would want on a wall chart, or in a reference binder.  BW


Being a shape number collector, in the order of the shape numbers would be handy, and overall, I would say the reference binder most useful to me.  That is sort of how I have mine setup now, only my reference binder images are "contact sheets" and the pictures are basically sizes of thumbnails.  My digital pipe files are actually a little bigger than full size and I use them when I really need to compare the shape with a real pipe.

Your work is far superior to mine and you are just the sort of fellow that I always hoped would happen along!  I may be able to help you with some other charts and with some shapes we know about that don't seem to be on any chart yet known to us.  This is especially true of some of the old Chicago made post-1949 "new" shapes they added, like the two below.  There MAY BE a shape chart flosting around for these somewhere, but we just haven't found it yet.  --RJ--

LokoMac8

drbridges wrote:
I hate to bring this up because I feel Mac should be doing this  Laughing , but a brief summary of the DG lines, when they were produced, whether they were ajusto, push stem metal cleaner, or filter would be nice to include with in a desk reference.


Well, you're darn toot'n I SHOULD be, but I was just crawling along at a snail's pace!

I agree with your selection of info to include -- after about 1991 there'll have to be some footnotes or disclaimers, because Lane really started shaking things up as to what line was equipped with what, until, if I remember right, the Regal was the last Ajusto left, although most of the line names still existed.  --RJ--
drbridges

Mac, if Barry has a large scanner, we might send him some full page DG ads from the 1940's to include in the reference binder. Our scans are too low resolution to produce decent copies.

I can see great possibilities if we all contribute and let Barry do the ... oops ... what happened to Barry? Shocked

Anyone seen Barry lately.   Rolling Eyes
BWThomas

drbridges wrote:
Mac, if Barry has a large scanner, we might send him some full page DG ads from the 1940's to include in the reference binder. Our scans are too low resolution to produce decent copies.

I can see great possibilities if we all contribute and let Barry do the ... oops ... what happened to Barry? Shocked

Anyone seen Barry lately.   Rolling Eyes


Barry hit the sheets while you guys were were up planning my destiny!
East coast.
This sounds great guys. I have just about fisinshed restoring the 81 Sparta shape chart. I'll start on the 37 Linkman charts tonight. Anthing you can scan and forward to me would be great. If you need to send stuff to me to be scanned, let me know. I can turn it around pretty fast.

...more later   -BW
steverino

LokoMac8 wrote:
drbridges wrote:
I hate to bring this up because I feel Mac should be doing this  Laughing , but a brief summary of the DG lines, when they were produced, whether they were ajusto, push stem metal cleaner, or filter would be nice to include with in a desk reference.


Well, you're darn toot'n I SHOULD be, but I was just crawling along at a snail's pace!

I agree with your selection of info to include -- after about 1991 there'll have to be some footnotes or disclaimers, because Lane really started shaking things up as to what line was equipped with what, until, if I remember right, the Regal was the last Ajusto left, although most of the line names still existed.  --RJ--


RJ - since you mention the Regal - do you know when it was discontinued?  I had assumed it was discontinued by the time Lane bought the company, but from what you said it sounds like it might have continued a while.
LokoMac8

steverino wrote:
RJ - since you mention the Regal - do you know when it was discontinued?  I had assumed it was discontinued by the time Lane bought the company, but from what you said it sounds like it might have continued a while.


You know Steve, I don't know if Tom or I are going to be able to accurately answer that question.  Tom retired about the time Lane was doing their thing, and I just have a chart and a little information right from the beginning of Lane's tenure.

I am pressed for time right now and not looking at any notes (which I NEED to do as I always seem to misremember things), it seemed that Lane was phasing out the Ajusto parts and as they ran out, they seemed to throw them in the REGALs -- I guess that line was the last one set up for it.  How long the Regal line lasted after that, or if any were made that weren't Ajusto, I don't know.

Seems we really need someone from Dr. Grabow/Lane that lived through the period to join us -- they are probably out there somewhere.  Each person has their own focus, interest and perspective and it would be great to assemble as many as we can.  For better or worse, history is history and the more accurate it is, the better, and we certainly want ALL sides of these colorful stories and adventures in the pipe making business!!!  One way or another, whatever happned along the way, and even what is happening now, the Dr. Grabow name, the legend and the factroy still survive and NEW Dr. Grabows are still being made!

I have to admit, I was a bit skeptical and in wonderment about IP&A when they took over, but after visiting the operation, getting to hear Rick Wooten and picking up on some things Jim Burns has said, I feel lots better about the future of Dr. Grabow pipes and the people who make them!  --RJ--
ted

Steve, RJ has my "take" on the Regal just right. Most of the people you saw during the tour could probably give us an answer correct to within a month or two. (Are you making a list of questions for next years trip?).

I do believe that Lane used up all the "odds and ends" adjustomatic parts on the Regal. Just as they used up the pipes "in process" with Collectors Choice......ted
steverino

Okay, that's what I was wondering.  So I guess there could possibly be some Adjusto Regals newer than the 1991 time frame, but being able to tell which ones they are would be difficult, if not impossible, I'm sure.

I'll go start the question list now.
ted

Steve, I've seen some Regal without the wide metal band on e-bay. I'm about 80% positive that none without the band were made before 1991.

To me, that makes sense since the wider Regal bands would have been used up first, and Lane would still have had a BUNCH of the other adjustomatic parts. If their plan was to use up all the adjustomatic parts in Regal, then "damn" the construction. Use up everything laying around..ted
BWThomas

...working on the Linkman shape charts. Anyone have an example of the company branding/logo in 1937? ...a 1937 ad or brochure?

Were they Dr. Grabow branded pipes at this time. I could stop and read the history again, but I figure one of you 'experts' has this knowlege right out front and ready to spit out!

BW
drbridges

Oddly, the 1937 catalog doesn't include a consistent stylized logo. It shows a couple of display boards for the $1 pipes, and those use DOCTOR GRABOW with a large central "G", but "Doctor" is spelled out, not abbreviated.

Published ads from the 1930s use DR. GRABOW over The Pre-Smoked Pipe in a framed rectangular box. The top of the frame says, Designed by a Physician for a Better Smoke, and the bottom of the frame reads, A Linkman Product.

It surprises me Linkman did not use the circle/bar propeller stem emblem in any DG publication I have found. DG continued to use variations of the framed rectangular box throughout the 40s. The only color rendition I have shows it to be red.

I hope Mac has a more detailed high-resolution of the rectangular box logo. This one is from 1948, and shows modification from the earlier 1942 design shown underneath it.




drbridges

This shows the display board for the $1 DG pipes shown in 1937. Note Pre-Smoked is not yet a feature of DG pipes. The bowls of these were advertised to be honey-lined, and they appear white in the catalog. Hardly pre-smoked.

I don't believe pre-smoking was Linkman's innovative idea behind the DG pipe. It was the metal cleaner.

BWThomas

[quote="drbridges"]This shows the display board for the $1 DG pipes shown in 1937. Note Pre-Smoked is not yet a feature of DG pipes. The bowls of these were advertised to be honey-lined, and they appear white in the catalog. Hardly pre-smoked.

I was wondering about the light colored bowl interior. Also, the finish description in the text below the ad will help me determine the proper colors to apply to these pipes.

Thanks drb, this is a BIG help.

BW
drbridges

Oh, if you're interested in colors, these are the colors from the 1937 catalog.



Mac & I were elated to find this list, because our vintage pipes had lost their original colors during use.
BWThomas

[quote="drbridges"]Oh, if you're interested in colors, these are the colors from the 1937 catalog.

Yes, I use photos of actual pipes to sample the colors to be applied to these chart images. The more accurate the better. Any examples you might have of these colors...post them here, or email me.

I've snagged a lot of images off the web, I'll use this for natural, dark, and walnut. Look accurate tou you?

click to see full size

...and what would these colors be?
ozark southpaw

Grabow Charts

BWThomas wrote:







Here are the single pages with the 'BIG PRINT'


Barry,in the bottom photo,think there is a boo-boo in the descriptions of first and last pipe.
BWThomas

Re: Grabow Charts

[quote="ozark southpawBarry,in the bottom photo,think there is a boo-boo in the descriptions of first and last pipe.[/quote]

Good eye OS....correction made

BWThomas


click image to see full size

This is an example of some of the restoration I am doing with the shape charts and a couple of other brochures I've got my hands on. The B&W pipe is the original image, the 2nd one is just a quick and dirty colorization. This is basically the quality of the shape charts and booklets I am putting together. The third one is a full restore, taking a low resolution B&W image and making it as close to photo realistic as possible.
If you look closely at the Linkman in the front, you will see I have also added a stamping.  Question: is this a c.1937 stamping?

Once I finish colorizing and cleaning up the shape charts, I'm thinking about doing some serious restoration of magazine ads and brochures, for the purpose of creating some frameable images. Wonder if anyone has any closeup, hi-resolution pictures of pipe stampings, and can give me an idea of what pipes would be marked with them.

The image below shows how realistic the renderings can be. I've inserted the non-existant make believe Linkman in my hand.



If any of you have any ads, brochures, photos in need of restoration and you have a decent resolution scan or PDF, send it my way. I'm kinda ate up with this stuff.

BW
Terry292

That's amazing work there, Barry.  How are you at restoring old photos?  I have some of my Dad in his Navy uniform, of WWII vintage, I'd like to get professionally done.
Terry
BWThomas

Terry292 wrote:
 How are you at restoring old photos?  Terry


Can do...send me a scan of the image.
ozark southpaw

Wow ! Nice work Barry !! What are you using to do those tricks??
BWThomas

ozark southpaw wrote:
Wow ! Nice work Barry !! What are you using to do those tricks??


mostly Photoshop
ozark southpaw

At one time I had Photoshop Elements,even that was too complicated for me!!
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:
Terry292 wrote:
 How are you at restoring old photos?  Terry


Can do...send me a scan of the image.


Man!  BW, if you can "colorize" old B&W photos, I have a million of them for you to do!  I live for the day when someone "invents" computer software that will automatically and quickly read old B&W photos and colorize then like Turner did some of the old B&W movies . . .  --RJ--
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:
This is an example of some of the restoration I am doing with the shape charts and a couple of other brochures I've got my hands on.

Once I finish colorizing and cleaning up the shape charts, I'm thinking about doing some serious restoration of magazine ads and brochures, for the purpose of creating some frameable images. Wonder if anyone has any closeup, hi-resolution pictures of pipe stampings, and can give me an idea of what pipes would be marked with them.


Your work is ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING Barry!!!  I am totally envious, as it has been years since I have had the sort of time I would like to have to "play" with my computer like I used to, to accomplish things like you are doing now!

Gee whiz!  I can help you out on most of your requests, but limited spare time that I get won't allow me to "keep up" with your goals or accomplishments!  I have quite a few old ads (but they are larger than my scanner as DRB might have related), and I have quite a few photos of close-up detail of stampings and what have you.  All stuffed away, somewhat disorganized, for the many "projects" I have been piddling around with for what seems like years -- with very little "progress".

The very first Dr. Grabow stampings were simple -- attached directly below is an example that I believe comes from maybe the 1933-1935 or so era -- prior to DRB's wonderful, and apparently, one-of-a-kind 1937 catalog.  The best I can tell, in these early Grabows, the Dr. Grabow WAS a line name, so to speak, of Linkman's pipes.  That is all that was stamped on them beside the MLC oval and the briar nottation:




Note in the above, the shape number "19".  Only two digits rather than four as in later pipes that designated line/finish and shape.  Why?  Well, once again, I believe there was only ONE line of Dr. Grabows in the beginning.  Also note, the only ads published seem to be from newspapers during that period, and just about NOTHING can be made out from the huge "dots" used for printing then.

Below is a stamping that I think dates to about 1936 -- just before and/or concurrent with DRBs 1937 catalog.


The above is a nice, DEEP, well-done stamp.  Whoever stamped the pair of pipes I have would get a big pat on the back from me if they were still alive today and I could track them down!  This stamp is probably the same, and remained so for a few years.  The difference on pipes from this "age" was that the pipe LINE name appeared on the opposite side of the shank, along with "BRUYERE" and usually the series/shape number.


Now we could go on forever, but the final stamp I want to cover here is sort of an oddball.  It is the script "Dr. Grabow", but included the pipe line below it, which seems to be limited to the SELECT GRAIN line.  About the time Linkman introduced the Tru-Grain, etc., they went to a simplified BLOCK style Dr. Grabow name with the line name under it.  For some reason I have yet to figure out, the Select Grain escaped this treatment.


I think this is most of the "basics", Barry, in very abbreviated form.  I want to see more of what's new on the forum and visit with the wife, so I'll let DRB chime in with any details I have omitted or errors that have slipped by me.  Barry, I wish you were my next door neighbor!  I think we could get a lot more done, alot more easily!!!  --RJ--
BWThomas

LokoMac8 wrote:

Your work is ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDING Barry!!!  I am totally envious, as it has been years since I have had the sort of time I would like to have to "play" with my computer like I used to, to accomplish things like you are doing now!


Thanks RJ, I enjoy doing this stuff, so it is easy for me. been doing it for 15 years. But I still don't have the time to do all that I want to do because I keep finding new things, like this new found interest in old pipes.

LokoMac8 wrote:

Gee whiz!  I can help you out on most of your requests, but limited spare time that I get won't allow me to "keep up" with your goals or accomplishments!  I have quite a few old ads (but they are larger than my scanner as DRB might have related), and I have quite a few photos of close-up detail of stampings and what have you.  All stuffed away, somewhat disorganized, for the many "projects" I have been piddling around with for what seems like years -- with very little "progress".


We can get this done. I've got the graphics skills, you and others here have the knowledge. You be the customer. Tell me what you would like to have hanging on your wall, what booklets or charts you'd like to have. Give me the raw material from which to build this stuff. I'll pick your brain and get it down on paper.

A large scanner isn't required. Just scan the charts in sections 8-1/2 x 11 at a time. Use post-it notes to mark the sections so I can easily reassemble the image. If you have Adobe Acrobat and the ability to create PDFs, then send them in high quality PDFs, this reduces the size of the file. If you don't have the PDF capability, you can just upload the jpeg images to my Photobucket. And it that doesn't work, there are other options. ftp upload...etc.

Oh...if I were your next door neighbor, you'd probably have more space on those pipe racks.

BW
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:
Oh...if I were your next door neighbor, you'd probably have more space on those pipe racks.

BW


Hmm . . . Maybe we better handle this through electronic and smail mail after all.

One of the hardest things for me is picking a starting point.  What do we want to work on first?  Whatever it is, it'll be slow, but I will be methodical until it finally gets done.  Since some of the things you are working on are similar to some of the things I was doing, only lots better, I'll set aside some of my projects and prioritize our joint project.  --RJ--
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:

click image to see full size

Question: is this a c.1937 stamping?


By the way, LOVE THE SHADOW EFFECT!  Really adds the three dimensional effect and makes it more convincingly real.

Guess, even with sending some of that stamping info, I didn't actually answer your question.  Actually, I was hoping DRB would answer it as he can keep track of the actual facts, details and dates better than I can.  My feeling is that the 1937 catalog predates the DeLuxe with SHIELD stamping a bit, but I cannot say that for a fact.  It very well could have been the very year it started.  The DeLuxe also had -- and I believe it predated the stamped SHIELD -- an embedded metal circle, and then an embedded two metal "dots".  I think the metal circle and the dots may have been very short lived.  A 1941 magazine ad clearly shows the SHIELD, but I have no "evidence" of that nature that shows either the circle or dots.  You can see why we have some difficulty in pinning things down.  The cleaner is another way to "date" the pipe, but again, the "evidence" is lacking for exact dates.  DRB's 1937 catalog shows at least two versions of the cleaner -- one which was probably obsolete by that time.  Interestingly, no stamps or other markings are shown in the artists renderings -- too bad, as that would have been a BIG help.

All that being said, I THINK the SHIELD emblem could have started as early as 1938.  This is sort of based on the cleaner design in the 1941 ad that shows a pipe with a shield and the same apparent cleaner design in a 1938 newspaper ad where no other details can be made out on the pipe itself.  Logic says it probably changed about the same time, but it's inconclusive in fact.  

I hesitate to even mention that in learning more about pipe making from the Sparta era has opened my eyes to many other possibilities in the eralier era which we know even less about, none of which make our "job" any easier.  And that is, until parts are used up, whether it be aluminum, briar or whatever, they could continue to make pipes with bits and pieces for some time where two different cleaners, or trademarks, or even stampings could exist during the same time period, with an "obsolete" one popping up several years later than what we would have figured.  For instance, I have a couple of what seem to be very late model Linkman pipes based on the simple block stampings and push stems that have stems with "propellers" that should have been obsolete years before.  Something just doesn't jibe and it still has me scratching my head.  --RJ--
BWThomas

LokoMac8 wrote:

One of the hardest things for me is picking a starting point.  What do we want to work on first?  Whatever it is, it'll be slow, but I will be methodical until it finally gets done.  Since some of the things you are working on are similar to some of the things I was doing, only lots better, I'll set aside some of my projects and prioritize our joint project.  --RJ--


I think the first thing I want to accomplish is recreating/duplicating the shape charts, so that we have examples of all the known Dr.G shapes. I have the '37 chart and the '81 chart. Are there others? I heard tell of a '61 chart.

I'd like to first build a complete reference showing the shapes and products manufactured during specific time periods, and include place of manufacture. After the shapes, add detail about stampings and stem construction.
BWThomas

shape chart


click to enlarge

Can anyone get me the dimensions of at least one of these pipes pictured here. I am wanting to illustrate them at full size on the charts.

Thanks,
BW
TheDuke

I'm guessing that RJ can help with the dimensions of the 00A, since that's what he's clenching in his avatar! Wink
EM
LokoMac8

Re: shape chart

BWThomas wrote:
Can anyone get me the dimensions of at least one of these pipes pictured here. I am wanting to illustrate them at full size on the charts.


My goodness those look NICE!!!  Sparta could increase pipe sales to individuals by multitudes if they let you handle their illustrations and catalogues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Measuring around the curve, the 00A is roughly 12 inches long.  Measuring as the crow flies, considering if it were a small crow and could fly from one end of the pipe to the other, then it is 11-1/4" from the heel of the bowl to the tip of the stem.  Interesting to note, the number on the pipe should have been "9700A" if we held to standard, but for some reason, they only got the shape number part on MOST churchwardens.  Like everything else, I possess an exception to the rule in the next shape.

11-5/8" from stem to stern, er, I mean, from the bowl to the end of the stem on my TRU-GRAIN #6014B (told you there was an exception!).  It seems the churchwardens that survived into the later era were not only given four-digit number stamps, but shape numbered into related shapes.


My 03A measures about 12" also, either around the curve or straight end to end extremes.

My 02A measures about 11-7/8" along the curve.

To make things easier, though, it appears the STEMS on all four of my churchwardens measure right at NINE INCHES exactly.  Hope this helps a "bit".  --RJ--
BWThomas

Thanks RJ, that's a big help.

I'd love to do their illustrations. Be like a kid in a candy store handling and photographing all those pipes.
drbridges

Quote:
I have the '37 chart and the '81 chart. Are there others? I heard tell of a '61 chart.


There is also a 30-shape pocket catalog from circa 1947; a 30-shape catalog from circa 1961; a 69-shape catalog also including DG meerschaums circa 1964.

On my hard drive these exist only as multi-page jpeg files. Will take some time to consolidate them into single pdf for email.
BWThomas

drbridges wrote:
Quote:
I have the '37 chart and the '81 chart. Are there others? I heard tell of a '61 chart.


There is also a 30-shape pocket catalog from circa 1947; a 30-shape catalog from circa 1961; a 69-shape catalog also including DG meerschaums circa 1964.

On my hard drive these exist only as multi-page jpeg files. Will take some time to consolidate them into single pdf for email.


drb, I'd love to have them, but you needn't go to a lot of trouble. You can upload them here:
http://photobucket.com/DGCFpipestuff

the album is locked down so as not to get flooded with junk, I PMed the password to you. Anyone else that wants to contribute can get the password from me.

BW
LokoMac8

drbridges wrote:
There is also a 30-shape pocket catalog from circa 1947; a 30-shape catalog from circa 1961; a 69-shape catalog also including DG meerschaums circa 1964.

On my hard drive these exist only as multi-page jpeg files. Will take some time to consolidate them into single pdf for email.


I plan on sending Barry a DVD with all my shape chart scans up until about 1981, I think it is, this week.  That may save you a little work.  I have other shape chart/catalogs from about 1988 and 1992 or so that I have yet to scan all of yet as well.  If and when I get those done (the shape charts in the newer ones are just small, black sillouettes, though) I will forward them on the Barry as well.  I think once Barry gets some of this material he/we will be better able to communicate the actual needs and wants for his new projects.  If he needs better scans of the materials I have, I can concentrate on those as well.

Anyway, I figured when Barry gets these things in hand, it might cut down on needless duplication of effort and some of that "reinventing the wheel" syndrome.  --RJ--
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:
the album is locked down so as not to get flooded with junk, I PMed the password to you. Anyone else that wants to contribute can get the password from me.


Well, Barry, I wanted you to have EVERYTHING I have on disk, but I could send some of this stuff off to you by this method as well so that you'd have several days head start.  Of some of the things either DRB or I mentioned in the way of charts of certain dates, if you think there is anything in particular you are interested in seeing, just let me know and I will upload it to your site as I get time between doing other things today.  The DVD you'll get will have the same thing, plus the individual pipe shapes "cut out", flipped, slanted, etc. that I was putting into my own master shape chart projects.

In doing this stuff, I basically divide it into two simple groups of Dr. Grabows -- OLD and NEW Grabows.  OLD covers the Linkman/Chicago era and NEW covers the HL&T/Sparta era.  Before I knew better, I had combined them all, but that made it too cumbersome and confusing, as except by accident, I finally learned that there was NO correlation in the Linkman and HL&T shape numbering schemes, nor in the actual design detail even in similar shapes.  With all of TED's info, this line became much easier to "draw", so to speak.  

Now as for the Linkman era, there are several very distinct groups of pipe shapes, especially in the very early Grabows.  As the majority of shapes went nearly all the way through his era though, I still lump all them together and just note on the individual shapes what era they came from if they were new or different from the "normal" shapes.  Of course, everyone has different ideas for organizing, but I just wanted to share with you where I had gotten after many bumps and bruises and false starts.  --RJ--
BWThomas

LokoMac8 wrote:
BWThomas wrote:
the album is locked down so as not to get flooded with junk, I PMed the password to you. Anyone else that wants to contribute can get the password from me.


Well, Barry, I wanted you to have EVERYTHING I have on disk, but I could send some of this stuff off to you by this method as well so that you'd have several days head start.  Of come of the things either DRB or I mentioned in the way of charts of certain dates, if you think there is anything in particular you are interested in seeing, just let me know and I will upload it to your site as I get time between doing other things today.  --RJ--


I am mostly interested in seeing the basic charts right now to get an idea of the big picture. I do want to recreate the indivual charts as they were published, but also want to amass all this into a single publication. Initially, it will be hi-res PDF, but I am also trying to get a feel for the overall layout so I can create a timeline index for my own reference while I am working on this.

so...for now, if you have a chance....shape charts.I am still very interested in getting the DVD and seeing how you have cataloged the information. This will give me some insight as to how you and others will use the info.

BW
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:
so...for now, if you have a chance....shape charts.


I will look in my PMs for the code and start uploading the original chart scans to you.  I take it you already have DRB's 1937 charts, so I will pick up from there in chronological order up until the last thing I have scanned.

Now, I have always just worked with JPEGs for several reasons, but I know other folks often work with PDFs and have their reasons for doing so.  I have just scanned at a resolutuon or whatever that gave me reasonably sized files and would look good on the screen or in printing out 8-1/2 by 11 inch full-page "prints".  Of course, when I started all this I was still at 640x480 screen resolution (now at 1280x800) and I was running out of harddrive storage space and memory capabilities.  As time went on the storage and memory situation improved.  Of course, I am still stuck in the PC mode, even though two out of three of my kids have MACs (which I bought, of course).

Armed with the above abundance of detail, Barry, what and how should I do my future scans?  My scanning equipment is still the same antiquated one I have been using for a number of years, so size of scanning area is limited to about a legal size page or so.  I just never have worked with PDFs, other than viewing them, because as far as I know (being the dumbass I am), I don't THINK I have a program to edit or manipulate them with.  Now this comes from a man that quite doing OCR stuff several years ago because it was just easier to scan all text and save them as images!  --RJ--
BWThomas

LokoMac8 wrote:
BWThomas wrote:
so...for now, if you have a chance....shape charts.


Now, I have always just worked with JPEGs for several reasons, but I know other folks often work with PDFs and have their reasons for doing so.  I have just scanned at a resolutuon or whatever that gave me reasonably sized files and would look good on the screen or in printing out 8-1/2 by 11 inch full-page "prints".  Of course, when I started all this I was still at 640x480 screen resolution (now at 1280x800) and I was running out of harddrive storage space and memory capabilities.  As time went on the storage and memory situation improved.  Of course, I am still stuck in the PC mode, even though two out of three of my kids have MACs (which I bought, of course).

Armed with the above abundance of detail, Barry, what and how should I do my future scans?  My scanning equipment is still the same antiquated one I have been using for a number of years, so size of scanning area is limited to about a legal size page or so.  I just never have worked with PDFs, other than viewing them, because as far as I know (being the dumbass I am), I don't THINK I have a program to edit or manipulate them with.  Now this comes from a man that quite doing OCR stuff several years ago because it was just easier to scan all text and save them as images!  --RJ--


JPEGs are fine. I use PDF sbecause I usually work with hi-res images and the 'High Quality' Setting  within Adobe Acrobat allows what are normally very large files to be compressed to a size that can be emailed easily. Besides, you need a full version of Adobe Acrobat to create the PDFs. Acrobat reader is free, the full version costs about 200 bucks.

RESOLUTION, I usually work in a minimum of 300 pixels/inch. This works well for scans of old magazine articles or scans of brochures which were printed using older printer technology. The newer digital stuff is almost perfect....no dots, so I work in 600 to 1200 and sometimes higher resolutions when preparing these. And then again, it all depends on the final output. If the final product is going to be used for screen viewing , 72 to 150 pixels/inch is fine. But because I am preparing to print this stuff to full size charts, I'll work in the higher res range to ensure that I have some really nice crisp prints up to 24" x 36"

Bottom line is.... whatever you can give me! Don't overload your computer with a bunch of huge files trying to squeeze in pixels, I'm going to rework everything anyhow. The only thing that is really important to get the highest resolution scans on is actual photographs that you might have that you may want to have restored.....not magazine reprints, but actual old school photographs.

Confused?

BW
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:
JPEGs are fine.


Well, that's good!  Didn't want to shell out for the full-blown Adobe, although I am sure, given the time to play with it, I'd love it!

BWThomas wrote:
Bottom line is.... whatever you can give me! Don't overload your computer with a bunch of huge files trying to squeeze in pixels, I'm going to rework everything anyhow. The only thing that is really important to get the highest resolution scans on is actual photographs that you might have that you may want to have restored.....not magazine reprints, but actual old school photographs.


If I have the time to do it, I'll give you whatever you want.  I don't have to save all that stuff here anyway, once I pass it on to you.  Consider what I send you a "sampler disk", good enough to see what it is you really want.  One of my biggest fears all along has been that whatever I was doing today digitizing images, etc.,  would become obsolete in a matter of a few years.  That especially seemed so a couple of years ago.  Now it seems like things have slowed down a bit, but not much.  My old "full-screen" 640x480 scans are now laughable and I suppose, before too long, my current standard 1280x800 scans will look like thumbnails!  It even took me forever to finally decide on and standardize to JPEG format!

Anyway, I did upload several charts and things -- by now your head should be swimming in sugar plums and pipe images!  I am happy to share these charts and info with you, and through you, others.  I am no hoarder, even though these things were hard to come by and sometimes quite expensive.

Anyway, consider me as your "assistant" and order me around -- or at least direct me on how to proceed and on what and when.  You might have to tell me how to do a few things, too, but I'm all for learning as that will help me with my scans of family photos and stuff that I am still trying to do.

BWThomas wrote:
Confused?


ALWAYS!  But I was that way BEFORE this!  Too much information bouncing around in my cranium and too little bandwidth.  I once had an old railroader say to me (jokingly I hope) that if they took my brain out and placed it on the edge of a razor blade, it'd look like a BB rolling down a four-laned highway!  He followed that up with, "If they took your brain out and put it in a matchbox it would be like a BB rolling around inside a boxcar!"  --RJ--
BWThomas

I'm downloading everything now, this is some GREAT STUFF!  Once I sort through this, I'm sure I'll have questions for you.

BW
LokoMac8

BWThomas wrote:
Once I sort through this, I'm sure I'll have questions for you.


Well, DRB can make a stab at it, I can make up stuff up off the top of my head that almost sounds credible, and then TED can give you factual responses.  We're all standing by . . .  --RJ--

P.S.  In other words, be sure and ask in the forum and not just ask me!  Besides, I have to charge for answers.  I used to have something printed up on the back of my business cards that went something like this:

Answers . . . . . $0.50
Answers requiring thought . . . . .$0.75
Answers that sound good . . . .$1.00
Correct answers . . . . . . $1.50

DUMB LOOKS ARE STILL FREE!!!
ted

LokoMac8 wrote:
BWThomas wrote:
Once I sort through this, I'm sure I'll have questions for you.


Well, DRB can make a stab at it, I can make up stuff up off the top of my head that almost sounds credible, and then TED can give you factual responses.  We're all standing by . . .  --RJ--


You guys are WAY over my head with the methods, but when it comes to the pipes, I'll help any way I can....ted
TheDuke

Just read through the topic again and got all excited! Very Happy  Any new stuff to show us BW?
EM
BWThomas

TheDuke wrote:
Just read through the topic again and got all excited! Very Happy  Any new stuff to show us BW?
EM


I wish that I did. I would much rather be making pretty pictures of pipes than the stuff I've been bogged down with at the office. This is the busy season for us and even my 'own time' isn't my own time. I have a home office that is similarly equipt with graphic workstations as my daytime corporate office. I come home each day to rest a bit and get right back at it again until bedtime. I don't know when things will be slowing down at the office to the point where I can get back on the pipe stuff, but I'm not complaining.
TheDuke

Understood Barry.Love the work you've done so far and look foward to your future stuff.(I'm laid-off and have to much time on my hands! Rolling Eyes )
EM

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