ted
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why is Grabow so under-ratedOK, my position is pretty clear, now I'd like some more input from y'all.
Why do most posters on other Forums treat Grabow as a Bas@#*& stepchild? We probably sold more pipes from the end of the war until 1970 than any other maker. Probably had more "loyal" smokers than KYM or anyone else.
Pipes were made from the SAME briar.....SAME vulcanite (sorry OS, we changed), and the SAME finish as any other pipes from the time.
Yes, we used lacquer, but so did everyone else that made pipes during this time???? Why were they not ostracised?
Why the perception of such a "cheap", "drugstore" pipe, when, in fact, it was as good as anything available?
GRABOW, LACQUER AND ALL, ARE AS GOOD AS ANY PIPE AT ANY PRICE!!! That's my position and as Mr Lincoln said, "That's my position and I'll stand by my position until someone shows me a better one"..ted
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Terry292
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Ted, I'm sort of organizing my thoughts as I go along here, so please bear with me. I personally think a lot of the current perception of Dr Grabow has to do with changing tastes and attitudes. When I was growing up, every drugstore, grocery store and news stand had large displays of American made pipes, Dr G prominent amongst them. Also, there were more of what I call everyday smokers, people who smoked pipes, surely, but they also used other forms of tobacco, smoking or chew. Almost every old farmer I knew then owned one or two pipes, at the most, and had a can of PA, Half & Half, Velvet, or some other mainly burley tobacco in his bib ovealls pocket. These men were primarily smokers, not collectors. Their pipes were mostly just another nicotine delivery system. They smoked their pipes, but they were just as likely to roll a cigarette from that can of tobacco. I still consider myself amongst this group. I smoke my pipes primarily because I get the most flavor from them as opposed to other types of tobacco usage.
Nowadays, as the number of smokers has declined overall, the emphasis seems to have shifted to hand made, exclusive pipes and not the machine made variety. The perception seems to be that machine made American pipes can't deliver the same quality of flavor as one made entirely by hand by some lone craftsman who obsesses over every step. I personally subscribe to something in the middle. I think a Dr Grabow pipe is potentially as capable of delivering a good smoke as any other.
I've seen this analogy used before: is a Mercedes really that much better as a basic mode of transportation than a Ford? It's the same with pipes; it's all in your point of view. I think the artisan hand makers are doing a better job of propaganda than the makers of machine made pipes.
This diatribe probably hasn't answered any of your questions. I know it doesn't make much sense, but I'm doing it on the fly. The bottom line, IMO, is it's all in what one is seeking: do you want a good smoke, or do you want a piece of art that can also be smoked? That's the basic question we all have to answer in the end. Personally, I'll go for the good smoke every time.
Terry
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ozark southpaw
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I think a lot of the prejudice against Grabows is from from guys that I (and others) consider to be snobs!! They seem to think that there is no way a cheap "drug store" pipe can smoke as good or better than their million dollar high grades. I haven't seen where the KYM products get bad mouthed like the Grabow but I think that may be because they are not as prevalent as the Grabows. There have been a few guys that have came out in defense of Grabows lately-as in the SF thread-"Eating crow for Dr. Grabow-Pass the salt". Some people will always equate more expensive with better.
Lacquer on a pipe? So what? I can't tell that it affects the way a pipe smokes!! The only thing I don't like about it is that if it is worn it makes it hard to restore a pipe to original. Like the old cars I used to mess with I prefer original. I'd much rather restore a pipe as refinish it. It gripes my ass because I cannot duplicate the original finish on my pipes. I can make them pretty nice but not original.
I have never smoked a "high grade pipe" and unless I win the lottery I never will-and then it would be artisan pipes!! I cannot imagine enjoying them any more than I do my Grabows!!
As for the snobs-piss on 'em and the horse they rode in on!!
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steverino
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| Terry292 wrote: | | Nowadays, as the number of smokers has declined overall, the emphasis seems to have shifted to hand made, exclusive pipes and not the machine made variety. The perception seems to be that machine made American pipes can't deliver the same quality of flavor as one made entirely by hand by some lone craftsman who obsesses over every step. |
I think this is definitely part of it. The other part is that some people consider the high end pipes as "art" and collect them as such. I have actually laid eyes on a great many pipes that sold for well over $1000, on up to $3000 - $4000. At this price level, a guy's not buying the pipe for the smokability; he's got something else in mind.
| Terry292 wrote: | | I think the artisan hand makers are doing a better job of propaganda than the makers of machine made pipes. |
And there you have it. What makes a Bo Nordh pipe worth $10,000? Hype, propaganda, marketing, whatever you want to call it. Well, that and the fact that he's dead.
To be completely fair, the high-end pipes represent for the most part some very talented, creative work, and by filling a market niche' (i.e., by being available to those that want them), they are helping the pipe smoking community continue to grow and thrive, just in a different direction than in the past. My own personal opinion is that high-end pipes will never replace machine-made pipes as the "choice of the masses". Unfortunately, our "masses" seem to be getting smaller all the time.
The machine-made people have done pretty well, too. Look at Dunhill as just one example. $500 or more for a machine-made pipe? I have never smoked a Dunhill, don't really have a desire to do so. I would smoke one if someone gave me one or sold me one for a good price ($50?). Why do I feel this way? Because I believe that my Eldorado 84L smokes just as well. If someone would like to prove me wrong about this, I will be happy to participate in the process.
As Terry alluded to, many pipe smokers today are collectors as well as smokers. One-upmanship and "keeping up with the Joneses" applies to the pipe world, too. Not many collectors want to show their friends a raft of Grabows (actually, I do), so naturally they go for the more expensive pipes that convey a tacit "look what I'm capable of obtaining for myself and it's better than yours".
Just my feeble thoughts on the matter - about .02 worth.
Oh, and there has been a little Kaywoodie bashing over on CPS of late, so even KW gets in on the fun once in a while.
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Terry292
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One last thing on this, Ted. What was it the lady from Mastercraft told you? Sell the sizzle, not the steak? That's basically what this whole thing is all about.
Terru
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drbridges
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This doesn't directly answer your question, ted, but it sorta might.
Fella and me have been friends for years. We both love large caliber single action revolvers. Only for him, it is only the Colt Single Action Army. For me, it includes Ruger Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks.
The Rugers are stronger and often more accurate than his Colts. I can shoot heavy loads he wouldn't dare shoot from his guns.
I will tinker and tune my Rugers, because they aren't that expensive. I won't try too much gunsmithing with my Colt SAA.
Is he a snob? Yep, no question. He won't smoke DG pipes neither. Something went wrong in his mind a long time before I met him, and I can't make it right again.
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Gig
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I smoke 3 types of Dr Grabow pipes, Duke, Westbrook and Omegas and they all smoke great and I thoroughly enjoy smoking them all as much as my Petersons, Cavicchis and Ardor pipes. If only the pipe snobs could lower their noses and try them I think they would have a surprise.
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LokoMac8
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| ozark southpaw wrote: | | . . . Some people will always equate more expensive with better . . . |
I think this is probably the main reason -- that an Dr. Grabow's long association as the "drug store pipe", and believe it or not, IT'S LONG STANDING POPULARITY.
Of course, it doesn't take long looking around most pipe related forums to realize that most of the participants are the type that are the elite of the pipe smoking world, or are at least under the delusions that they are. Just look at the pipe names they toss around, the prices and their special taste for primo crafted tobaccos. Like high-priced cigars and expensive wines and rare paintings, they are looking for something more than just a good pipe to smoke and some decent tobacco to enjoy.
I guess if I had outlayed hundreds or thousands of bucks for a famous artisan made pipe I wouldn't want to admit that a cheap knock-off, except for the touch of an artist's particular hands, looked almost as good and smoked as well, if not better. And I dare not put anything in the bowl of that pipe as cheap and common as Prince Albert. Now I ain't knock'n it -- it just ain't my style nor genre. I'm just a common everyday working man making middle class wages for my labors, and as such, Dr. Grabow pipes are my salvation and the folks who make them are my heros.
Dr. Grabow, over the years, has made various stabs at the higher end markets -- the last of which was the apparently the still-born ALPHA lines. I don't know whether or not that would have been modestly successful, but I'm certainly not aware of ANY marketing whatsoever for it. I think only then, priced in about the sixty dollar range. I don't know if the Dr. Grabow name will ever really allow for the high end market, UNLESS something is really done to prove they are different and elite in some way -- something that proves they are not off the same assembly line, no matter how well crafted they are.
For Dr. Grabow, I guess the Westbrook achieved, if not at the time, but certainly by lore these days, what would have to be achieved for a higher-end Grabow. Look at some of those current prices on eBay for them!!! So I guess in the same vain of questioning, TED, whatever was done to set it apart is somewhat the answer to your question. That the Westbrook could be perceived as actually more than it was among even people who would thumb their noses at all other Dr. Grabows is part of the answer, I think, in changing the perhaps undeserved poor image of Dr. Grabow pipes in general. I think all of us on this forum have thrown in a suggestion or two for what would work for US, or for what we think might help Dr. Grabow move forward. For me it could be as simple as shape number stamps, bevel or rounded bowl tops and dating and "signing" pipes. For someone else it might be the return to vulcanite bits.
Anyway, see what happens when I get ten minutes of spare time? I start to babble and ramble incoherently, completely awash in my Dr. Grabow pipe fanaticism! Now, back to work on my tractor . . . --RJ--
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ozark southpaw
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Keep ramblin' and babblin" Mac-we like it!! That tractor can wait!!
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LokoMac8
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| ozark southpaw wrote: | | Keep ramblin' and babblin" Mac-we like it!! That tractor can wait!! |
Well, that tractor has been waiting for about four years and I have been needing to use it for the last two years. Got a new battery and cleaned out the gas lines, and believe it or not, it cranked (THIS time) on the first attempt. Now I have to fix the broken alternator bracket and maybe clean out the carburetor better. At least I was able to show the wife some progress after I goofed off the whole day while she was at work!!! Total time spent on the tractor -- including going to TSC to get the battery -- was about an hour, but she assumes I have been working on it all day! --RJ--
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ozark southpaw
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You're good!! Very good!!
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LokoMac8
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| Terry292 wrote: | | . . do you want a good smoke, or do you want a piece of art that can also be smoked? |
Personally, if I had a piece of art that cost me over, say, a hundred bucks, I'D BE SCARED TO DEATH TO HANDLE IT, MUCH LESS SMOKE IT! It'd be my luck that the first time I smoked such a wonderous thing, the entire thing would burst into immediate flame and be consumed in a pipe burn out conflageration heretofore never seen or heard of. And my nice investment in that little "piece of art" would have gone -- well, what would you say -- UP IN SMOKE. --RJ--
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Irishlefty
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I would agree that it is partially the association as a 'Drugstore' pipe and partially plain old snobbery that is the basis for the lack of proper respect for Dr. Grabow's.
In my working years I never bought an 'expensive' pipe. Petersen's was the most expensive brand I ever paid retail for and that only because the brand was the pride and joy of my fraternal Grandmother and Uncles. I could afford to spend a hundred or two for a pipe but wouldn't consider the idea.
Once I retired and started restoring and selling pipes on e-bay, I got to clean up and smoke Dunhill, Castello's, BC's, Sasieni's, Stanwell's and many other big name brands and I can tell you flat out, not one ever provided a 'better' smoke then my Dr. Grabow's!!
In my opinion the most underrated pipes today are DG's and Sasieni's.
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Rev. Avery
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Another great set of responses. I appreciate the honesty about all of this. I'm no expert, but my Omega does a fine job. Of course, I like my cobs too 
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Flycruiser
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I sold my Dunhill and bought Grabows. 'Nough said. I want a great smoking pipe that performs reliably, is affordable and most of all not something I have to baby. Dr. Grabow does what I need it to (and very well) for a price that I agree with.
I agree with y'all though. Seems like most folks want the brand name. Kills me when some Dunhill smokers will specify which year of pipes they'll only smoke.
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drbridges
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I only will smoke DG pipes made after 1931.
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Flycruiser
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| drbridges wrote: | | I only will smoke DG pipes made after 1931. |
Haha. I'll have to tell those snobs that next time they're relighting their Dunhill's and I'm still puffing away, my pocket lightened only one match, down at the tobacco shop.
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Rev. Avery
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"I sold my Dunhill and bought Grabows. 'Nough said."
I hope this doesn't sound weird but ... that made me feel good. 
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steverino
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I'm one of those "year snobs". I favor Grabows made from the 50s through the 70s.
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BWThomas
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Well, I guess I'm one of those classless lowlifes. I like smokin' em brand new right out of the blister pack
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Flycruiser
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| steverino wrote: | | I'm one of those "year snobs". I favor Grabows made from the 50s through the 70s. |
Why I never.... j/k! I do prefer Viscount's and Westbrook's, but I'd rather buy 10-15 new Grabows than a new Dunhill any day.
And Steve, with a collection as big as yours, I don't think we'll ever classify you as a year snob!
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steverino
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| Flycruiser wrote: | | steverino wrote: | | I'm one of those "year snobs". I favor Grabows made from the 50s through the 70s. |
Why I never.... j/k! I do prefer Viscount's and Westbrook's, but I'd rather buy 10-15 new Grabows than a new Dunhill any day.
And Steve, with a collection as big as yours, I don't think we'll ever classify you as a year snob! |
Ha Ha! I'd use the word "collection" advisedly, if I were you!
No kidding though, that statement you just made is highly significant. I too would much rather be able to buy several pipes that would serve me well rather than just one. I guess there are several brands that you could buy that would accomplish this, but Grabow is certainly the most effective for my money.
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drbridges
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I really prefer the classic American DG shapes. Kaywoodies are similar, but don't smoke as well for me. Peterson has some acceptable shapes.
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Rev. Avery
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I think I'll take 'em any way I can get 'em
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introibo
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Why are Grabows underrated?Gents, just my 2 cents' worth here, but I suspect it is because the people who sneer at Grabows don't know much about them. Like people who sneer at Fox News and it turns out they never watch it. Personally I have only recently started buying used Grabows, and never had one that was a bad smoker. Some are in pretty rough shape, but others are really well designed and well made.
The other thing is that the quality of a pipe seems to me to depend on what you smoke in it. I have an Omega that smokes PA badly, but does very well with Sugar Barrel. Go figure.
Another thing I notice about Dr G collectors is that we are all historians, and as interested in the company and the people who made the pipes and sold them as we are in the pipes (perhaps not quite). Very similar to the Dunhill and Pete collectors, by the way. But most of all, I think it is what was mentioned above -- you could collect Dr G shapes your whole life and always be surprised.
Best, Pete
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steverino
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Re: Why are Grabows underrated? | introibo wrote: | But most of all, I think it is what was mentioned above -- you could collect Dr G shapes your whole life and always be surprised.
Best, Pete |
And still have money left over!
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Codger
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[quote="drbridges"]I really prefer the classic American DG shapes.quote]
Same here. I see some of the hand-made "artisan" pipes and cannot imagine spending so much for something that is so ugly. Maybe it's just that the classic DG shapes are the ones that I remember seeing when I was young.
Hey, I have no problem with Grabows being underrated, and overlooked by other smokers - It means they are more affordable and plentiful for those of us who appreciate them.
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introibo
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You fellows are both right. I would not be allowed to spend several hundred dollars on a pipe, even if I could. Wife would exact revenge in ways too horrible to imagine. She sees the credit card slips, and will tolerate what I pay on Ebay for Grabows, Woodies and a few others.
The beauty of Dr G collecting is that for not that much you can get a really interesting collection, and enjoy the company (at least virtually) of men like yourselves.
Best,
Pete
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steverino
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| introibo wrote: | You fellows are both right. I would not be allowed to spend several hundred dollars on a pipe, even if I could. Wife would exact revenge in ways too horrible to imagine. She sees the credit card slips, and will tolerate what I pay on Ebay for Grabows, Woodies and a few others.
The beauty of Dr G collecting is that for not that much you can get a really interesting collection, and enjoy the company (at least virtually) of men like yourselves.
Best,
Pete |
Here here! My sentiments exactly. And we actually get together in real time too, not just in the virtual world. Well, we have once. But we will again, right guys? Anybody got that date?
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ted
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Gig mentioned, on Smokers Forum, about his Omega bowk falling off, because he didn't put the stem in tight enough. Said he caught it on the "first bounce" , off concrete, and it was no worse for wear. Do that with a $500.00 pipe and you and your wife are mad . Do it with a Grabow and for a few dollars, you can have a new one.
Gig, I enjoyed reading your post......ted
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